I was out with a friend the other night. I have a new job possibility, but the location is in Saudi Arabia rather than Dubai. The cost of living is less and the pay is higher - significantly higher. The problem? It's in Saudi Arabia. There is no way I'd take my wife there for the money they're offering. In fact, I cannot think of any level of money they can offer to get me to take my wife.
One possibility would be for me to stay in Bahrain and commute to KSA, but that's a remote chance by itself. I think I might start looking towards Singapore instead. One good thing about the oil patch is that we drill for oil wherever there is oil, so except for the Caribbean and a few other off-limits areas, my choices for where I work are fairly unlimited.
How much of a raise would it take you to move to Saudi Arabia?
Not-Quite a Job Offer
November 18th, 2012 at 02:07 am
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November 18th, 2012 at 11:08 pm 1353280134
I know about the compounds, but even here in Dubai, the nightlife can get a bit boring. Fun-boring, but still old hat. I can't see KSA being all that much different, but with less choice and less variety.
I've been to Singapore dozens of times for weeks-long visits for past jobs. The humidity isn't much worse than Texas, and the temperatures aren't anywhere near as high as Dubai in the summer. I really love the fact that there is so much to do in Singapore. For just a few dollars, you can spend literally the whole day in the Orchid Garden and see thousands upon thousands of different flowers. One of my desires is to be there when the tiger orchid blooms, which is only twice a year. I've never been there during the requisite two weeks. It's just never worked out.
But that's all theory right now. We just signed on a new apartment, so I'll be staying here at least another year until that lease expires. Once I get moved in, I'll post a photo of our view. The only problem is that it gets morning sun, which means no startling sunset views. I hope to get a few decent sunrise shots while I'm there.
November 19th, 2012 at 12:04 am 1353283481
Women can't drive, they can't vote, it's difficult to get an education and they don't have property rights. Their opinions aren't valued and they can't file for divorce. And they can be stoned to death for adultery.
To compare this to random wife beating or abuse by some idiot in America is, i think, ridiculous. The former is institutionalized disempowerment of half the population; the latter is prosecuted and punished when it comes to light.
That's far worse than misogynism, IMO.
Wino, I'd be interested to hear in greater detail from someone who actually has lived in the region to tell us what you think it's really like for women.
November 19th, 2012 at 01:35 am 1353288942
I could as easily point out Christian sects such as the Amish or Mennonites and the way their women are dressed and treated, the Mormons and their polygamy beliefs, the Jehovah's Witnesses and their medical beliefs, and attribute these beliefs to all of Christiandom. Do you know the origin of the phrase "rule of thumb?" Of course, attributing these things to all Christians wouldn't be fair as these beliefs/views are not held by all Christians. Well, the many beliefs you've mentioned are not held by all or even most Muslims.
The KSA is much like Iran in its treatment of women. This is true. I ask, is the treatment of Saudi women all that much worse than the Indian subcontinent and its forced marriages of daughters for political or financial gain? What about European royalty and the intermarrying that is done there even until today, also to consolidate political power? Let us not forget the caning done to criminals in Singapore or the sexual exploitation of women in Latin America. There are many things in the world I don't like, but your post shows not just a little malice that is ill-founded and rife with half-truths and exaggerations.
I should get a picture of the universities here in the UAE. Women can drive. Women can vote. Women are going to college in droves. They are politically active and I have heard of nowhere in modern cities of any women being stoned or killed in honor killings. Most of those pushing for more restrictive laws over here are women. You are attributing one sect's beliefs to all of Islam. I will grant you that I wouldn't want to live in the KSA for many of the things you have written, but your post paints an unrealistic picture of the vast majority of Muslims and their beliefs.
November 22nd, 2012 at 01:46 pm 1353591961
I know it's different in certain other areas.
It's laughable to even compare the Middle East to the Amish or Mennonites. The Amish don't ride around in jeeps with Uzis to enforce their beliefs on those they may find on the streets!
The treatment of Saudi women may be similar to forced marriages elsewhere, but that doesn't make it right!
My point was, the culture is barbaric in many ways. Whether there may be other cultures that contain backwards elements as well is besides the point.
November 22nd, 2012 at 01:50 pm 1353592239
The Saudi guardianship system continues to treat women as minors. Under this discriminatory system, girls and women of all ages are forbidden from traveling, studying, or working without permission from their male guardians. In 2009 the Ministry of Commerce, though not other ministries, stopped requiring women to conduct ministerial business through a male representative.(wow, what progress.)
On September 25 King Abdullah announced that women will be able to vote in municipal elections in 2015. (Welcome to the 21st century.)
On May 22, Saudi authorities arrested Manal al-Sharif after she defied the kingdom’s de facto ban on women driving. Al-Sharif appeared in a video showing herself behind the wheel. Prosecutors charged her with “tarnishing the kingdom’s reputation abroad” and “stirring up public opinion,” according to Saudi press reports. On May 30, Khobar police released al-Sharif from prison after she appealed to King Abdullah.
November 26th, 2012 at 02:26 pm 1353940008
Jerry
November 27th, 2012 at 02:01 am 1353981666
How many of you would turn down a job in H E double toothpicks for that amount for one year?
November 27th, 2012 at 03:53 am 1353988430
I have no father or husband to grant me permission to work, to leave my house, or to drive. How would I get to work each day? What if I am arrested? Will I continue to draw my salary while I am sitting in jail?
If you wish to pursue the possibility of a job in Saudi Arabia, then do so. I am not going to judge you or consider you a misogynist. You should do what you believe is best for yourself and your family.
You did solicit opinions as to whether others would consider working in Saudi Arabia. I myself would not. But then, I am a divorced woman. Life in Saudi Arabia would be quite different for me than for you.
November 28th, 2012 at 04:07 am 1354075628
There are many places in the world where women are still considered second-class citizens. To single out Muslim countries due to western perceptions is not fair and is also a bit incorrect. It is the women here in the UAE who are behind the push for western women (and men, but mostly women) to wear more conservative clothing, especially in the malls. It is the younger women more than the older who are behind it, as well.
Many of the women also like the pampered lifestyle. Not being "allowed" to work when one does not have a desire to work isn't really a burden. Not even 100 years ago in America, most women did not work outside the home. This changed during WWII, more or less, with many of the men going to battle leaving the women to work in the factories.
I am not defending the Saudi lifestyle. Are you being oppressed if you enjoy the "oppression?" How would you like to stay home or go shopping or have your lady friends over every day, whenever you like? You would be surprised how much power the women actually have in Muslim countries. The power must be exercised through the authorities who are the husbands and other men, but the power is real. Merely disrespecting a woman here in the UAE is grounds for deportation.
I turned down the Saudi job. I have no desire to work there. Perhaps after my friend goes there, he'll convince me that the money is worth the inconvenience. Personally, I doubt it. Living in Dubai, which is also a Muslim country, is actually somewhat enjoyable. It is much more cosmopolitan here, though, than KSA.
November 28th, 2012 at 07:11 am 1354086688
Yes, I do think it is a big deal that women are not "allowed" to live their lives as they wish without permission from their male authority figure. Yes, I do find it oppressive.
Yes, I do know that there are many places in the world today where women are considered second-class citizens. I don't see how one culture treating women as second-class citizens excuses another culture for doing the same.
If it is a western ideal that all people should be treated as equals, then I will proudly bear the title "western", for that is exactly what I believe.
November 28th, 2012 at 06:02 pm 1354125739
What I see is that they value are the tools of war that the west create. They'll send their sons to learn to fly or operate sophisticated equipment to use against one another.